Currently, over 7 million people are under some form of carceral supervision in the United States–from custody to bail to probation. For our final episode, 70 Million reporter Mark Betancourt moderates a conversation about the role we, the public, play in creating and sustaining the matrix of incarceration as it exists today. He’s joined by Cornell professor Peter K. Enns, author of the book Incarceration Nation: How the United States Became the Most Punitive Democracy in the World, and Insha Rahman, Vice President of advocacy and partnerships at the Vera Institute.

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